New genealogists every think it over extreme you to definitely Nicholas’ spouse Clementia try included here because the, not as much as normal circumstances, she’d not be stated. When Susanna on particular afterwards time obtained over to a unique protector, the brand new partner of that guardian was not stated.
This will imply that King John invested sometime indeed there and you will the potential for an amorous liaison which have Clementia can be acquired
Here are some here is a concept complex because of the specific eminent genealogists, but it’s fair to state that brand new results are hotly competitive!
That it concept contributes to a wonderful and you can curious ‘twist’ from the tale off Joanna, which may interest fans from HBD!
On the surface, there would be nothing to strongly recommend any partnership between your hostage, Susanna out of Wales and Clementia, partner from Nicholas de- Verdun. not, sensation of some genealogists having foreign hostages, particularly young ones, has been that they was basically usually set which have relatives, if any was indeed readily available.
Bouncing forward to 1236, there’s an entry on the Tewkesbury annals and therefore applies to Joanna’s mom as “King Clemencie!” It reads partly:
Now, it is known that mommy away from Joanna are entitled Clementia (Clemence?
In this situation the fresh new monk is evidently indulging in the gothic legalism. Before her death, Joanna had been legitimised of the Pope. Based on one to legitimisation, the fresh Tewksbury monk plainly grabbed it on themselves to elevate Joanna’s mother toward reputation out of King, as if their mother ended up being King John’s partner! It is true although not, you to definitely King John and you may Clementia was never ever partnered. By referring to Joanna’s mother as the “Queen” Clementia, the brand new monk just who registered Joanna’s passing is actually showing his tall regard to own Joanna, however wanting to change the correct activities.
When it comes to label away from Clementia de Verdun, Paget means that she try the new child from Roger de- Dauntsey, of Wiltshire. You to genealogist considers it tall you to Clementia regarded from Wiltshire given that he’s realized that Queen John got an effective attachment so you can that state, it as the family off their best partners, the newest Longespee, ilies and you will Geoffrey Fitz Peter.
Genealogists discovered your label ‘Clementia’ is extremely uncommon among English noblewomen with the several months. In one single desk off ladies labels that has been gathered, there are simply a couple events of your own identity “Clementia” of a maximum of 1407 feamales in the fresh new sample! The reality that some body called Clementia would be regarding the Susanna is known as tall.
Thus! Evidence is actually suggestive, however conclusive, that from inside the 1228, Susanna, given that an excellent hostage, gotten out over the proper care of her maternal grandma, now wife of Nicholas de- Verdun!!
New Scottish genealogists of your MacDuffs’ keep one Susanna ferch Llywelyn was created 1214 inside the Gwynnedd, Wales and died c. 1259 when you look at the Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland. She married Malcolm MacDuff, Earl off Fife in the 1230 together with several youngsters: Sir Colbran MacDuff, Earl away from Fife, born 1245, died 1270 and MacDuff MacDuff born 1247.
Definitely, you’ll find counter objections to any or all it supposition! King John had of several mistresses and maybe as many as seven illegitimate youngsters. The caretaker out-of Joanna would have been created circa 1172 and marriageable circa 1184. Joanna by herself was born circa 1191 (fourteen yrs . old during her matrimony so you can Llywelyn). Rohese, the identified legitimate daughter regarding Nicholas de- Verdun and his awesome partner Clementia came into this world circa 1210-1213. If the Clementia is actually mom out of Joanna, she’d come into their unique late 30’s, very early 40’s when pregnancy to help you Rohese! Not hopeless, particular state, however, not likely.